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Mb6 Not starting


Guest Pudren
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Hi all.

I changed the rotor arm and the dizzy cap for aftermarket ones (blueprint) on my '99 civic mb6 with a b18c4 engine (TEC td-86u distributor if i'm not mistaken)
The car was running fine, only did it because of maintenance (huge deposits at cap terminals and worn out rotor "blade")

The engine started without problems, and had great idle. I stepped in the gas pedal a bit and it bogged. Idle again. gas again and it bogged. Then, suddenly, engine stopped.
Tried to fire it up again and nothing. Engine turns, it has fuel (spark plugs come out wet).
Checked the signal from the ignition module to the ignition coil, it seems to function properly (intermittent ground pulse). Checked the spark at ignition coil, i't had not. Meaning that when i changed the rotor arm and cap, the coil went down.
Changed the ignition coil for an identical used B20 engine coil.
Now i have fuel and i have spark on all the 4 spark plugs, yet, the car would not start.

Tried lots of combinations: another rotor, old cap... I have dismounted the distributor from the engine 2 or 3 times, always caring on the timing mark, and there is no way i can put the axle 180º degree off to the cam as the grooves only go in in one position.

I have lots of things still to check, but i would like to know if someone had a similar problem and show me some light as this is driving me mad.

- Manual says you have to put the distributor on Cyl.1 at TDC but this is for timing it later right ? I marked it when dismounting so it should be at correct timing.
- Didn't check the 3 magnetic sensors that go to the ECU (TDC, Crankshaft position and Cyl.1 position) but they should not be off-timing or damaged as i didn't even touch them or the signal rotors at the distributor axis. And i think the ecu should show light up the engine malfunction lamp and it's not light

Any help would be appreciated.

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I think I'd be inclined to play with the ignition time first of all.

It should be set 16 degree before tdc iirc.

It's best to bridge the 2 pin service connector on the left side of glovebox. This will stop ECU altering the timing.

Put he dizzy and half way and Try and see if it starts.

If it doesn't adjust it either way and try again hopefully will get it to start and then time it up 16 degrees before tdc.

If no joy then gonna have to go through your dizzy and ignition system.

Check the coil screws are tightened right down for example I've know if before the screws too long and bottoms out not making a good connection.

And of course this all came about changing cap and rotor. Try the originals if you know they were working. 

Then Swap HT leads for another set.

Although there usually robust and don't break down on these cars.

Just have to go through everything

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4 hours ago, KiNK43 said:

I think I'd be inclined to play with the ignition time first of all.

It should be set 16 degree before tdc iirc.

It's best to bridge the 2 pin service connector on the left side of glovebox. This will stop ECU altering the timing.

Put he dizzy and half way and Try and see if it starts.

If it doesn't adjust it either way and try again hopefully will get it to start and then time it up 16 degrees before tdc.

If no joy then gonna have to go through your dizzy and ignition system.

Check the coil screws are tightened right down for example I've know if before the screws too long and bottoms out not making a good connection.

And of course this all came about changing cap and rotor. Try the originals if you know they were working. 

Then Swap HT leads for another set.

Although there usually robust and don't break down on these cars.

Just have to go through everything

 

What do you mean by "put the dizzy and half way" ?

You saying I should try to start it with the 2 pin bridged ?

 

Thanks

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Yes set the dizzy timing about in the middle and bridge the 2 pin connector next to the glove box. It will show EML on dash bit that's fine.

Try start it. Move dizzy little bit at a time until it starts. 

Then set it to 16 degrees before tdc using a timing light once you've got it running.

 

 

 

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Could itr be the ignitor in the dizzy has been disturbed during all the fitting/trouble shooting? Normally these throw an eml but could be. Know Ruby would start ok, run fine but then suddenly lost power and cut out. Had to wait ages to get her to start again then same thing would happen.

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On 12/22/2020 at 4:38 PM, Dave said:

Could itr be the ignitor in the dizzy has been disturbed during all the fitting/trouble shooting? Normally these throw an eml but could be. Know Ruby would start ok, run fine but then suddenly lost power and cut out. Had to wait ages to get her to start again then same thing would happen.

 

It could be.

I am almost 100% sure that, when I started it with the new -aftermarket- cap and rotor, the moment the engine dead stopped meant that the coil went down. No spark from that coil. It would be possible that this messed up the ignition module too, in chain (and i hope not the ECM). I still get intermittent signal from the module, and spark from a new -used- coil, but who knows if it sends it at the right time or with enough Amps.

 

All this seems out of time pulse or weak spark.

 

Today, I checked shorting the service connector. MIL lamp stays on, so this means that it has not any fault stored, i think.

I also checked the 3 sensors at the distributor, all of them give on range impedance values ( 360 Ohm)

 

I have a used, working distributor coming on my way, from the same engine. 100% Honda, so i'm taking the aftermarket parts out of the equation.

So now another questions rise.

 

Should I put this distributor right in and try to start the car ? or

Should i put the distributor, do the connector shorting, and try to start it (as @KiNK43 said) moving the distributor for a posterior timing with a strobe ?

 

Thanks

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Got it running with the new distributor, ECU connector shorted, with the distributor in the middle. I have it now ready for checking the timing, tomorrow, as i still don't have the strobe light. Will check and do some tests if i can make the old distributor work again. What i am 100% sure is that the old coil died 10 seconds after putting the new cap and rotor.

 

Oh, and maybe you will like this anecdote:

 

When i put the new distributor, and tried to start it... the car started for less than a second, and died again. When i tried to start it again... it cranked alright, didn't start, but it sounded... weird. Like when you have all spark plugs out, basically only the starter could be heard... yes, there was no compression.

 

My friend went mad. "It's not possible that the cams skipped any teeth from the belt, you didn't touch that". - I know.

I instantly remembered from watching videos of "Ericthecarguy" on youtube what was happening: Due to the amount of attempts to start the car these past days... cylinders got flooded with fuel, so the piston rings lost all the oil in them. One shot of fresh oil on each cylinder with a syringe, put the spark plugs in again and you could FEEL when turning the crankshaft that it was getting harder to do so on each turn.

 

I let the car sit overnight and today it started with the first turn of the key.

 

Cheers

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Glad that it sounds like you're nearly there with it. 8-)

That happened when my distributer died - it was turning over, but really fast and as you say sounded odd. Interesting to hear the reason. 

 

Would be good to see your mb6 bud - why not join up and start a project thread? We love a picture round these parts :grin:

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7 hours ago, dr_broon said:

Glad that it sounds like you're nearly there with it. 8-)

That happened when my distributer died - it was turning over, but really fast and as you say sounded odd. Interesting to hear the reason. 

 

Would be good to see your mb6 bud - why not join up and start a project thread? We love a picture round these parts :grin:

What he said!! ^^^^^^^ Get yourself signed up mate, would love to see your mb6 in the forum. Plus you'll have access to our downloads (Official service manual, Original Brochure and our popular How to guides in Word document format) and other areas of the forum that you won't be seeing as a guest.

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