TIFU... Cracked the block

[Finch]

So today, I, completely and utterly f**ked up. Did a full service, gasket change, checked for warpages etc (had blown head gasket for like 2 months but not time to do it), valve lash adjustment, brakes etc. Basically a pre-winter overhaul before I start building a D16 to drop in.

I got round to torquing the bolts and noticed they were about (exactly, on measurement) 20mm longer. The bolts were longer but no-issue, I've worked in parts before and know that 1 part can cross reference 100 vehicles all with various odd differences so just ran with it. Chased threads with an old bolt and then dropped the head on dropped all the bolts in and started in sequence going up to hand tight then started torquing with the wrench. First steps 14ft-lb (according to local Honda parts dept) then 39ft-lb and final 2 stages both at 49ft-lb to ensure complete seal.

 

I did steps 1 and 2, no issues, threads were perfect but noticed the bolts were sat at around 16-18mm above the face of the head. At this point I was looking and couldnt figure out what was going on. I got my dad outside to look and give an opinion (chartered aerospace engineer) who was a bit confused but said "is that the last step of torque?" I said no there are 2 others, he then pointed out that they might close down in the 3rd step because you know they used 4 steps for a reason. I agreed.

 

I did the 1st bolt in the sequence and there was a ping, I froze, looked down as water started pouring out the front of the block.

 

I did not swear, cry, shout or anything I just stood in disbelief. I removed a bolt and did a size comparison and found exactly 20mm was different and I'd hit the bottom of the block. as I continued to torque the bolt couldn't go anywhere but outwards.

 

Damn.
 

[dr_broon]

[Dave]

Damn not good mate 

[Finch]

4 hours ago, dr_broon said:

Yeah, It took around an hour for me to get upset, I called the my buddy at the shop I got the parts (where I used to work) it turns out their supplier used my VIN and Engine code and sent out the parts using that info so at this point theres a bit of a chain of blame however I completely blame the supplier who sent them to my old work place as they had the correct details to cross check!

 

3 hours ago, Dave said:

Damn not good mate 

No not good at all, I've spoke to a friend who works at a local breakers, He's got a few Dirty D's in and is going to have a look for the lowest mileage one in, regardless of size (1.4 > 1.6) I'll be in need of one ASAP (I travel 40miles minimum a day). If the engine is a D16 I'll have to run it on standard (1.4) ECU with everything plumbed up and plugged in as if the car was the standard 1.4 engine except running the 1.6 injectors. Not ideal but until I can afford to buy a few bits next month, including either a chipped P28+S300 or AEM Standalone I'll need to deal with dodgy fuel economy but at least I'll have a running car!

 

I did some digging over the last 24 hours and found that there is 2 type of bolts on the market an 88-95 D16 and the 95+ which are 20.25mm shorter than the 88-95 ones so they royally f**ked up, especially as they're supplied it as a kit (Timing, Head gasket and Bolts)

 

Stay tuned; I'll be posting a couple of pictures on a build thread.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Finch

[Finch]

On 9/26/2016 at 0:52 PM, UnicyclingTom said:

so, your gonna claim off of them then?

Going to try! I had to pay for a new block, belts and service kit, did the putting-in myself but the block, belts etc has cost me another £250-300.

If they try to squirm out of it saying I should have had a pro do it, I'll send them my Masters degree in Engineering and tell them to pay up lol

[EdGasket]

You must take some responsibility for not checking the new bolts against what came out no? I am a bit confused because you say you did find them 20mm longer when you were torquing, so why carry on especially when you noticed that they had not wound down to the face of the head? Sorry, its a bummer, but we all make mistakes; I don't think you can lay the entire blame on the parts supplier.

 

Another common issue has been different length timing belt tensioner bolts; too short and they strip the threads in the block. Sometimes the tensioner is a bit thicker or thinner than the old; you have to check all this stuff.

[Finch]

3 hours ago, EdGasket said:

You must take some responsibility for not checking the new bolts against what came out no? I am a bit confused because you say you did find them 20mm longer when you were torquing, so why carry on especially when you noticed that they had not wound down to the face of the head? Sorry, its a bummer, but we all make mistakes; I don't think you can lay the entire blame on the parts supplier.

 

Another common issue has been different length timing belt tensioner bolts; too short and they strip the threads in the block. Sometimes the tensioner is a bit thicker or thinner than the old; you have to check all this stuff.

The torque pattern for the D14Z4 is the same as that for the D16Y8 - 15, 36, 49, 49 according the staff at my local Honda dealership. I assumed as been the case in the past with "proud" bolts that as you start to continue the 3rd and 4th steps it closes the gap down. I've had this on B series and Nissan SR's in the past especially with OE style hex-topped bolts. And as I stated before, I've worked parts and services for car companies and motorfactors before 1 part can cover 1000 cars and have a variation on design because they have made it fit more than one range. This set had two seperate threads on the body, a Honda one at the bottom which I matched and a different pitch thread at the top unlike the ones that came out, I've seen this design in certain applications where they use the top thread to bite into the head to ensure 100% mechanical lock.

 

When I went back to my old place of work we cross referenced the part number it was coming up for Honda CRX / Del Sol and Civic (88 - 95) as well as Honda Preludes, Rovers, MGs, Pontiacs, Toyotas, Citroens and a tonne more other cars.

The point is they sent out 88-95 bolts for a 95+ style engine (which has a different deck height to accommodate VTEC designs) unlike its 88-95 predecessors which were still using SPFI or Carbs in some cases! The same supplier sent out the wrong clutch for the new engine I put in and spark plugs and filter (different car). At this point the company I get parts from is now questioning their supplier who has sent out several wrong parts not only for me but other customers they've sold to, The supplier is also investigating whats going on in their picking dept since this isn't the first set of complaints they've had.

[EdGasket]

A bit late now but can't you reuse the old head bolts? I heard in general they can be used up to 5 times; i.e. you can take the head off and put it back 5 times before needing new bolts. When you reuse the bolts though you just do them up to a torque appropriate for the bolt, you don't torque and then add an angle because the bolt has already been stretched somewhat.

[Finch]

10 minutes ago, EdGasket said:

A bit late now but can't you reuse the old head bolts? I heard in general they can be used up to 5 times; i.e. you can take the head off and put it back 5 times before needing new bolts.

This was the crack, plus the block is now going to become a coffee table  

 

There's a new (26k) D14 in now so should be good for a few more years! Though I am planning on boost