Thanks mate, I will have a look about for some, for cheapness it's certainly worth a try getting a bit more bottom end out of them Today's jobs are fitting some chavtastic 6x9s in the parcel shelf, they were only a fiver and they are pioneers, just hope they are not shot as mentioned earlier they make a scratchy noise when you push the cone by hand :/ Was also digging in the shed and found all the wooden trim I took out of my ES mb4, as you all know lower spec m's don't have the wooden heater surround, ashtray or gearknob surround so might as well stick em in, my ciggy lighter doesent work nor the ashtray light up so its a good excuse I think the black leather compliments the wood trim I did ponder pulling the fake wood out and going down the mg zs trim route again, but I remember at the time preferring the wood, don't know why, must be because I'm getting to 40 lol