martinw

The reason for the rust problem in this area is, I believe, due to it being the area that all water drains down to whenever it rains or you wash the car. Remove the 2 rubber bungs close together (in first pic) if you have them, and wash the car (or just the roof/windscreen area) on a dry day and you will see where the water comes out from. Its the holes in that area. Trouble is - the water doesn't fully drain away. Having rubber bungs (if you have them) in those 2 holes doesn't help, but even if they are removed, the water still doesn't fully drain away. The bung holes are flanged which doesn't help. Maybe its the way the car sits, but the water seems to sit towards the rear and then starts rusting away at at any panels inside that void. Design problem ?! I went through all this when I first bought my MC2 aerodeck and had rust starting in the same area as the first pics. Fortunately, believe I caught it in time. Removed loose rust inside, spray treated and resealed the whole void, treated and resealed exterior rust etc. But if its gone too far - serious job - not just a single panel replacement, multiple ends of panels would have to be cut out, fabricated and welded back in, treated and sealed. And this area is surely structural - with the number of panels meeting here, it's got to be - adding strength to the the whole suspension, subframe etc area. BTW its not just a MC2 problem. My earlier MB3 with 32k miles had the same problem starting .... so check yours, whatever the model !

See dr_broon's later post about body seams under the roof gutter rails allowing water in, that makes it's way to the back of the car inside the body. One that I will be checking as my leak still isn't fixed.

Never updated on this. Did go with Autoglass in the end. Guy came to the house, removed the screen. First thing we found was a corrosion spot and some metal missing from about a 2cm area at one side of the lower body windscreen surround. This was under the screen bonding. With the bond broken by the corrosion, flexing of the screen had caused it to crack. Guy said really that corrosion should be cleaned up and small piece welded in if I wanted a permanent repair. Obviously didnt have time for that and now the windscreen was out and looking like rain ! So he suggests (no guarantees) that what they usually do on small gaps is clean it up, spot paint repair, fill the gap with extra bonding material then put the normal screen bonding over the top. "usually does the job". So we went with that. Now onto my concerns about seals and clips etc. Mentioned the rubber dams. Had he got them ? Yes, he says but they aren't really needed. Asked him to put them in. Turns out he had a complete fitting kit that the comes from the windscreen company, including all the clips. But unless you are watching and prompt them, they are going to save time a replace the bare minimum. Turned out most of the clips were in good nick and only replaced a few. Not in the fitting kit was the side plastic trim. On mine the original had split. Had to be refitted as was. My only complaint about the overall job was that later this trim became loose and popped out every time there was hot weather. Still haven't got round to fixing it properly back in place........... Screen still ok, no sign of a crack reappearing, mostly all good

Similar water leak problem on my deck which I think I discussed on a (much) earlier post. Still haven't fixed it but the suggestion of of a bad body seam under the gutter rail is worth investigating. Thought I had found other bad body seams. Open the back hatch and you will see in the 2 top corners of the body opening, seams that run vertically from near the roof to near the hatch rubber seal. On mine the seam sealer on these seams appeared to be dried out and cracked. So, applied some black seam sealer over the old stuff. Didn't fix the problem but might have reduced the leak a bit ?

Have removed and re-installed vti-s side skirts on a vti-s but I dont know if the MB vti (if thats what you are installing onto ?) already has some of the fixings or mounting points. Have you got any clips and screws with your vtis skirts ? Should have 6 plastic button screws on the underside of the skirt. These button clips go into holes in the underside of the steel sills. Do you have those holes in the sill ? The vti-s skirts should also have a number (maybe 6 from memory?) of white plastic push-in clips that are mounted on the inside (centre) of the skirt. These clips push into holes in the side of the steel sills. Do you already have those holes ? If you dont have any of the above holes, you will have to drill holes of the correct size to fit the various clips. If you dont have any of the clips, there are copies of the genuine Honda clips on Ebay (I have used them). But if you dont have any of the clips, you will not know what to look for as often Ebay sellers dont have honda part number references. If that is the case, check out the genuine parts catalogue on parts-honda.uk. This has parts diagrams, part numbers and prices for British and euro (and others) versions. Check the vti-s version (sometimes listed as vti in their catalogue) of your car and see what the honda part numbers are for the clips. Either order them from honda dealer or the the parts-honda.uk website (they are about the same price- sometimes dealer is cheaper). Or use the Honda part number as a reference when searching Ebay, you might get some results. Anyway, once you have sorted all that out, the installation is quite easy. Ask again if you get that far. Best of luck !

Thanks for the reassurance. If I was going to trust any company to do a proper job, it would be autoglass. You didn't happen to see if they replaced the rubber dams when they were doing it ? That's what I was most worried about in terms of leaks. But maybe autoglass have found that these are not necessary ? (from the diagrams, I can't make out what they are supposed to do)

Got a crack in windscreen which has now extended beyond MOT limit, so looking at replacement through insurance. As on policy, have a choice of company, thinking of using Autoglass. Anybody have experience of using them (or other companies) for windscreen replacement on our cars ? Reason I'm asking is, have read the procedure in the workshop manual (quite involved with lots of possibilities of replacement parts needed), I'm concerned that the job may get bodged and I finish up with a windscreen that leaks and/or trim not replaced properly. For example, to remove the old screen they have to cut through not only the bonding material but also the upper and lower "rubber dams". To remove the upper windscreen trim (held by adhesive tape) they may have to cut that trim piece out. Would they supply replacements for any removed parts (?) or have they another way round this ? Side trim moulding is held in place with plastic clips (always prone to breakage) of about 7 different designs and there's about 10 of them per side. Plus another 4 or 5 steel (could have rusted) retainers for the plastic clips per side. Again, will they be replacing these if damaged/ missing/rusted (?) or do they have another way of fixing the trim back in place ? Should I be trying to source the parts that they are likely not to have ? I notice that quite a few people have had their windscreens replaced and so far haven't found any complaints. Maybe I'm worrying unnecessarily ?

At least - you've got a 6 month extension on time for your next MOT !! (new gov regs for virus)

Update As moving onto the brakes on the other side, decided to have a look at driveshaft/doughnut on that side before ordering new driveshaft - in case I needed to order two. As I already said doughnut on passenger side appeared good previously but wanted to have a really good look in case the corrosion had got in there too. Pulled the rubber back on the un-clamped inboard side of the doughnut and could feel a bit of flakiness to the paint but otherwise looked/felt good. Was just about to decide on cutting it open when noticed that when spinning the driveshaft back and forth, there was a distinct clunk from the inboard CV joint. As there was obvious slack in the joint and would need replacing anyway, decided to cut off the doughnut. Pics below are what I found...…. Pretty self explanatory, but the pics of the doughnut cut open show that there is a difference in design/construction between the bad one on drivers side and the good one on passenger side (don't know if they are both original but suspect so). The good passenger doughnut is much more flexible when you try to turn it by hand coz the outer ring is attached to the inner sleeve by a series of rubber ribs whereas the drivers doughnut inner and outer parts are connected by a continuous rubber ring (less flexible). Don't know if this affects durability. Anyway, what was significant to me was that on the edges of the pristine paint on the driveshaft under the good doughnut, the corrosion had already started (see bubbling paint). Give it some more time and you could have another weakened driveshaft with no exterior signs . Draw your own conclusions...….

Amazing they missed this, after you asking them and undersealing nearby. The jacking points are easy enough to do but the area around the trailing arm bush mounting points not so easy - difficult to get at without removing the arm and depends how far away you have to go to find good metal to weld to. Could it be they knew it would be a pain to do and just left it ? Incidentally, on mine which is pretty good generally underneath, this is the only area (both sides) that had been previously welded. Having re-rustproofed the areas recently, had chance to have a good look at the welding. The area welded extends from the bottom of the inner arch to the inner sill and jacking points plus a bit onto the chassis, all interlinked . And a plate for the rear seat-belt mountings. In all, 5 or 6 plates - not a small job and repeat to do both sides. Thing is though, looking at the cars MOT history it failed on corrosion to rear suspension and seatbelt mountings - the next day (!) the welding had been done and passed its MOT. Both MOTs were at a Honda dealer, so maybe they did the welding ? Anyway - just shows whats possible in a day - never mind 3 months !!

Thanks for the advice, will probably go for the J&R shafts when I get round to it (may not be far away, see below). Decided to cut off the damper, mainly to see what damage the corrosion had caused to the shaft, but also to better understand the construction of these things. First pic shows the damper after being cut off. There appears to be only one securing clamp on the outboard end and mine was still in place. So guessing the water gets in at the other end and corrosion starts? You can see where its been cut that there is a metal ring that is inside the rubber and goes all the way round the circumference. Decided to weigh the doughnut and it came to a surprising 10 ounces ! That's a fair bit if centrifugal force acting on the shaft ….. and (playing with the good one) this force is applied to quite a flexible rubber base where it meets with the shaft. Next pic is of the shaft after doughnut cut off and last pic of the shaft after wirebrushing. Worrying amount of metal corroded away from the shaft where the doughnut was. So decided to measure it - the normal part of the uncorroded shaft was approx. 26mm dia (with paint). The narrowest part of the corroded area was only approx. 19mm ! That means the shaft has lost 27% of its dia (and strength) at that point, and the corrosion probably goes deeper. No wonder these shafts can snap easily if corroded and put under stress..... Luckily, my car has been (and will be) off the road until mechanically good and I,m not having to use it regularly. But if I was using it daily, I would be worried about driving it with a shaft in this state. And who knows if the one on the other side (that looks good) hasn't also corroded underneath the rubber ?? Guess most driveshafts snap when pulling from a standing start (?) and don't cause too much damage underneath or loss of control ? But say one let go at 60mph when you drop down a gear (or two) - you've got two broken ends of the shaft flailing around at high speed and maybe a disastrous loss of control ? My own thoughts at the moment are that maybe there's a case for recommending that if your car still has the original dampers on the shafts, that you change the shafts to the non-damper (J&R type) asap.....

Working on front brakes reminded me that I'd seen this earlier:- O/S "dynamic damper" (Honda parts list description) seems to have destroyed itself - see pics, N/S one seems ok. From reading elsewhere, seems this is caused by trapped moisture leading to corrosion on the shaft and that corrosion eventually causing possible snapped driveshaft ? On mine, although you can't see it clearly in pics, there are signs of corrosion to the shaft inside the doughnut (and it seems like the diameter of the shaft is less there than the rest of the shaft - normal ?). Anyway, my first thought was to cut this doughnut off, as it can't be acting as it should, the state its in. But, question is - if I do cut it off, is this going to cause vibration or other adverse effects ? (opinion seems divided as to whether these dampers actually do anything much) Next - as I'm now worried that I could have a driveshaft that is already weakened, looking towards replacing it in near future (complete with CV joints both ends). Looking at replacements on Ebay, found a J&R item for a reasonable price, but no doughnut/damper on the shaft. Anybody got experience of using these non-OEM shafts with no damper on their car (maybe in conjunction with the original shaft/damper on the other side). Any problems ? Or, if I replace one side with no damper, do I also need to replace the other side with no damper ? Also - do these non-OEM items generally come with the correct number of "teeth" on the ABS ring ?

Great find ! Thanks …. Notice that Rimmer Bros also still has one side (RH) of the rear caliper shields but a bit more pricey at £28.20 They also still have the front disc shields (part no. SEC000100) at £34.20 each.

Thanks all …. Would like to replace the rear disc shields but think its going to be a long term search for NOS, or by chance someone is breaking with some shields in good nick (unlikely? and can they get them off without damage?). Caliper shields (first time I've come across these on any of the cars I've worked on) - discontinued by Honda. Haven't got on to front brakes yet but suspect disc shields for those are also going to be poor - also discontinued by Honda.

Thanks for that. To be clear, I am talking about the shields behind the discs, not the (plastic?) shields above the calipers. On mine, the caliper shields were already missing when I got the car. Bracket and bolts for these still in place (probably seized). Not intending to replace caliper shields. Believe I would only think about replacing disc shields if I was working on the hub/ bearings anyway. Meanwhile, will leave them off...…...

In the process of refurbing the rear brakes discovered that the (dust ?) shields were in a pretty bad state. Corroded but holding one side, almost falling off the other. That one, after leaning on it, did come off. Seem to be difficult to find (and Honda only have one side at over 40 quid) and to replace will prob have to remove hub/bearing. Securing bolt heads are badly corroded and no doubt threads will be seized - bolt snaps, then have to tap them out . Questions are - do people just leave the shields off in this case (apparently in the States/Canada, they do), and if so could it be an MOT fail over here ? If I do try to put them back on, is there any firm doing them for a reasonable price ?

Think if mine had the pin spacing like yours, would have had a better chance of getting them off. Guess Honda had a limited number of pin spacings available (almost like coding) and its just luck of the draw which ones you have on your car ?

Well - Success !! The guy got the nut off, took him about 2 mins. He used a high torque impact driver and a lump hammer and the original key. Told him that I had tried my impact driver (15 quid halfords special) without success. He said this driver was in a different league, cost about 100 quid and has so much torque it can snap sockets or the drive head easily. If that had failed he said he had other tools for pin-type nuts that would do the trick and rechargeable drivers with up to 1600 ft llbs torque. Didn't even damage the nut or key if I had wanted to re-use it (not). So if you have a similar problem, may be worth calling your local specialist (mobile tyre fitters come across these problems frequently, mine was the 3rd of his today). If in the Norwich area - pabrownmobiletyres - highly recommended !

As you say, a really dodgy/weak design. Especially for something subject to the weather. Once the chrome coating has gone, starts to corrode, then pin-holes expand with use. Gonna fail sometime. Wont be putting them (or any other type) back on. Just the standard OEM wheel nuts. Nobody nicks wheels these days ?

UPDATE (for now): Have contacted one of the local wheel nut removal firms. He's seen the pics and reckons he can get it off and has never failed (yet !). No call out charge if he fails. So going to let him have a go at it tomorrow late pm. £36 if he succeeds. Will watch carefully on what method(s) he tries and will report back on outcome.

My car came fitted with the OEM locking wheel nuts and the key (and a few spare standard nuts). While working on the rear brakes, managed to get the locking wheel nut off one side by being fairly gentle with the breaker bar but there was corrosion to the pin holes in the nut. Tried the other side (also corroded in the pin holes) and this will not move. As soon as you try to turn the key, it just slips. Tried the old trick of hammering an undersized socket onto the chrome cap that extends beyond the head of the stud. Very thin metal (I found out afterwards) and as soon as I tried to turn it, it just sheared the cap off. So now I'm stuck with this wheel nut I can't get off and can't move forward with brakes (and work on wheel arch). After this problem, thought I would try and get the 2 front ones off and managed those ok. First pic shows the problem wheel nut (the blue circle in the centre is the head of the stud). Second and third is another wheelnut removed earlier (also cap sheared off) giving a better view. And lastly, the key (there does appear to be some wear/distortion to the pins). Have had a look at local firms offering a locking wheelnut removal service and most of them only seem to have tools suitable for screwing onto bolts (rather than nuts) and most will still charge a call out fee if they can't get them off. I've just cancelled my RAC subscription, so can't call them...... So, any ideas/suggestions for getting this nut off ?? (Personally, think this is probably going to have to be drilled out with consequent damage to the wheel and/or stud)

Know what I said about not thinking about mods yet ? - well the slippery slope has already started...... Mentioned earlier that I had removed the corroded foglights. So started looking for an alternative, as some people were asking extortionate prices for secondhand originals. Recalled seeing that someone had fitted Ring lights so looked on their site and quite liked the look of their Ice Blue driving lights (BRL0368) and they looked the right oval shape to fit in the apertures. But could not find any retailer who had them in stock. So looked on Ebay, still couldn't find them. But someone had a boxed pair of Ring Ice Blue driving lamps under a different (earlier?) part number BRL04582 and luckily included pics of the box which gave dimensions for the lights. Looked like they might be a very good fit. So for 20 quid (incl post), ordered them. When they arrived, found the shape and size were nigh on perfect for the apertures. So next onto how to mount them. The old foglights had been removed complete with mounting frame (3 screws which came out easily). The top 2 mounting screws are pretty central to the original centre of the light and they are square to the front of the car. So thought if I make up some right-angle brackets to fit - see how they go with the protusion through the surrounds. Had already spliced the original connectors to the Ring wiring with spade connectors. Fortunately by leaving a little bit of slack on all the screw connectors the foglight surrounds went on first time with a bit of jiggling and the protusion looks about right. They are a clear lens with a dark blue/purple ring on the outer glass. Have tried them and they give a clear light but you can see the blue ring illuminated. Quite pleased with them …….. (oh, and the surrounds have been smoothed and sprayed)

Thanks for all your replies, Dave - you could well be right with the "v-british grey metallic" being the right colour and they are available from Honda for about 30 quid (could return them if they don't look right - they seem ok with returns)…... But Jake - those light grey (non-metallic ?) stickers look fine on yours.... And Simon - which of the colour choices (not red obviously ) did you go for ?

My car came with no door stickers and thinking of putting them back on. Its a pirates black vtis aerodeck and i'm looking for what would have been the original colour of sticker. Have looked at lots of pics of similar cars and they appear to be silver or grey or maybe even white ? Looked on the parts-honda.uk list for a '99 aerodeck vti and they have the sticker colour for a orleans blue car - "v-active silver" and for a cascade green pearl car - "v-british grey metallic" but nothing listed for a pirates black car. Anybody know what the correct colour sticker should be on a pirate black car ? (doesn't have to be exact colour as if original not available, will probably buy cheapo ebay copies)

Yeh, still finding dog hairs in the carpets and upholstery even though some of the boot carpets and trim had been cleaned before I bought it. Leather needs attention ….. Master plan is to first address the small amount of rust at front end first (working on that at the moment). Underside has been rustproofed previously (possibly by Honda dealer) and overall is not bad. Had the sideskirts off and sills are ok but they weren't undersealed so have done that and will be injecting inside sills. Need to also re-seal where the welding was done at rear end. After that want to go through the mechanics, cooling, brakes and suspension bringing them all up to scratch but leaving them standard for now. Then, on to the body...... So guess it will be a full restoration. Don't want to even start thinking about mods until I've at least got a reliable car that looks half decent as a baseline